tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9158467536239735339.post2696193017601418690..comments2023-10-19T05:19:01.550-08:00Comments on American Dirt: There was a parking lot...now it's a peaceful oasis.AmericanDirthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04600555386886915000noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9158467536239735339.post-56654665333470850762011-02-14T19:44:06.573-09:002011-02-14T19:44:06.573-09:00It seems in my zealousness to respond to your arti...It seems in my zealousness to respond to your article I wrote more than was allowed for one post. I edited it down to fit; so I must apologize for my choppy first post. While my heart is always in my responses, my proof reading skills often are lacking. I did want to share with you the tree I “found” after reading this article (which didn’t make it into my first response). <br />The other day sitting at a red light, I looked up to notice a huge live oak for the first time. I had seen the tree practically all my life but really never noticed her (being so stately I can’t bring myself to call the tree “it”). There she was a huge sprawling tree, moss on her branches, a picture of the south, sitting in a parking lot. I wish I could post the picture I took, as a picture is worth a thousand words. I found her in the Outback Steak House parking lot on the corner of Acadian and I 10. She sits in the middle of the parking lot; a bit more space is left around her than your “Biloxi Oak” four parking spaces. The landscaping is considerably better around her as the area is thriving. I hate to sound jaded, but being such a grand old lady on such a busy corner, I can’t help but think the reason for her surviving the parking lot was more due to aesthetics\advertising than love of the tree. She is positioned at just the right place; it looks as if she was almost placed there on purpose. That makes me wonder how many trees did not make cut, when the parking lot was paved?<br />I followed the link to your post on Oak Alley while reading this article and found it quite interesting. When I read it, my first thought was if one of the trees dies that the spot should not be filled in with another tree. In essence, it was the tree that was more important than the whole. Then I ran into an article about the Youngsville Oak and its plight. The grand old oak seems to be in the way of progress, specifically in the way of a road. It has been decided that the mighty oak is to be transplanted to another location. I would think in a metropolis as large as Youngsville, La (I’m being sarcastic here) that the road could be diverted but the powers that be decided otherwise. The problem I have with this is that the tree was one of the original trees on Dr. Young’s property (founder of Youngsville). The tree is not just a big tree, it marks part of history. Would the Statue of Liberty mean as much if it was moved tomorrow to land locked Nebraska? Ok, I know the Youngsville Oak and the Statue of Liberty are different scales but you get my point. With the Youngsville Oak, I believe the original tree and its location is “point” whereas with Oak Alley after some thought I think the whole or “structure of Oak Alley” is more important than the tree. <br /> Who knows, in time, the Youngsville Oak might end up as a replacement tree for Oak Alley, stranger things have happened.Nicihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17027950425760632413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9158467536239735339.post-82798572114909664842011-02-13T08:55:56.853-09:002011-02-13T08:55:56.853-09:00Thanks again for your thoughtful comments, Nici. ...Thanks again for your thoughtful comments, Nici. I especially like that you reference that the "membership" of the Live Oak Society involves the trees and not the people. <br /><br />As for the age of this oak, it's anyone's guess, and a botanist or arborist is far more likely to be qualified in that speculation than I am. You raised some good additional points, especially regarding urban versus rural conditions. That undoubtedly played a role, and yes, some species of trees do tend to grow more slowly in a forested environment, as you and I both suspect is the case with this Gulfport/Biloxi live oak. (Conversely, some species flourish in a forest but struggle on their own. For example, beech trees have a fairly hollow, low-density trunk and need the surrounding tree environment for protection from strong winds. If the forest is removed, it's only a matter of time before an isolated beech snaps after a thunderstorm.) As for the trees at Oak Alley, they have also survived this long due to inordinate amounts of investment to keep them intact...my blog post on Oak Alley was all about the hidden "scaffolding" keeping the branches from snapping. Compare that with all the deliberately planted street trees in New Orleans, which, while excellent for canopy, are hardly the "show piece" that Oak Alley is and don't get the sort of money from private property owners trying to keep every branch alive.<br /><br />I do, however, think you cannot underestimate the impact that concrete plays in plant growth--while hardly the only variable, it is definitely among the biggest. The ecosystems of New Orleans in 1850 and Gulfport in 1810 were not that different...in terms of paved surfaces. And to this day, pavement plays a critical role in the survivability of street trees, though these days Gulfport and New Orleans trees both encounter largely similar urban impacts. So even if their origins are different (this Gulfport tree is probably grew on its own accord while the New Orleans ones did not), the conditions between the two today are relatively similar: not all that good, as you noticed. A tree along a dirt road already has an advantage because the imperviousness is its biggest potential stressor. But it would take some real detective work to determine exactly how old any of these trees are. You've definitely jumped on it with those great observations about the root system and its size in proportion to the crown.AmericanDirthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04600555386886915000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9158467536239735339.post-17278146096135936022011-02-06T20:16:29.138-09:002011-02-06T20:16:29.138-09:00I do have a theory on why the your “Biloxi” Oak re...I do have a theory on why the your “Biloxi” Oak remains to this day, The Live Oak Society. Founded in 1934, the Live Oak Society currently has over 5,000 “members” in 14 states. Membership is composed of Live Oak trees that are at least 100 years old. I did do a little digging (pardon the pun) and there are several trees that were registered in Biloxi before the 1960’s. The membership roster I found did not list location, but I'm sure there is a map or documentation of where the trees are located. This and not knowing the location of your tree makes it impossible to say with certainty, your “Biloxi” Oak is a member but I feel comfortable with my theory.<br /><br />I do disagree with your theory of the age of the oak. Comparing the “Biloxi” oak to New Orleans and Oak Alley oaks is akin to comparing apples to oranges. Yes, they are all Live Oak trees, but environment plays a huge determining factor in how a tree grows. Trees planted in a city, even 150 years ago before concrete are going to have completely different environmental stressors than trees in rural areas. The Live Oak trees have were planted (and well planned) for a specific purpose, to be a show piece. Their environment has been adapted around them; while the New Orleans trees were planted then left to adapt to their environment. The Biloxi Oak was planted most likely by nature and grew up slower under the cover of a pine forest as most evergreens do. Growing the shade of other trees causes the growth of tree to be slower. This along with a completely different soil base makes it hard to compare the age of the Biloxi Oak using the other oaks mentioned as a gauge. I can offer my guess is that the tree is roughly 200 years old. I base that partly on the knowledge that 200 years is the average age of a live oak and this picture. http://www.pbase.com/septembermorn/image/74291892 This picture shows two 200 year live oak trees that are in Biloxi. Without a scale, it’s hard to tell how these trees compare in size to your tree but they seem to be close. And trees so close to the beach would be smaller due to fewer nutrients available to other oaks that weren’t as close to the sandy beach. Both sets of trees show the lack of vigor that comes to all of creatures with time. If you look at the “Biloxi” oak and the picture of the “beach” oaks you can see the crowns of the trees are not full. These can be best seen in your “Biloxi” oak. A healthy vigorous live oak should have a lollipop outline. From a distance you would see a crown of leaves not individual branches. Looking at your tree, one can see every individual branch, which tells me the tree is on the decline.<br /><br />While the parking lot did not help the tree and probably shaved off some years it hasn’t completely smothered the tree roots do to the fact on how trees receive their nutrients. The tap root of a tree grows straight down but its function is support. The horizontal roots of the tree are the ones that supply nutrition, water and oxygen. The ends of the roots are the best and most efficient place for nutrient absorption. The location of the ends is estimated by the using the rule of thumb 1 ½ of the diameter of the crown. Do to the large crown it is safe to say the tree is receiving most of its nutrients from the strip of grass between the parking lot and the road. <br /><br /><br />I started seeing Live Oaks everywhere after I read this article. I must admit it’s not hard to believe that since I do live in South Louisiana but again, your article was the gentle prompting I needed to really see the world around me. As always, keep writing and I will keep reading!!Nicihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17027950425760632413noreply@blogger.com